Aussies in Hollywood Podcast: Damon Herriman

Introduction:

I bet you've seen Damon Herriman in a film or TV show sometime in the past few years, even if you didn't know his name at the time. Damon recently appeared in the Stan series Perpetual Grace, LTD, as the son of Jacki Weaver and Ben Kingsley, and stars in season two of the upcoming David Fincher Netflix series, Mindhunter, with fellow Aussie, Anna Torv.

Now, Damon has three films also coming out: the Quentin Tarantino movie, Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, where he takes on the role of Charles Manson for the second time [00:00:54] after Mindhunter; The Nightingale, produced by fellow podcast guest Bruna Papandrea; and Judy and Punch, starring fellow Aussie, Mia Wasikowska.

Damon is one of the most beloved Aussie actors I know, and I couldn't be happier for his success. So, it was great to catch up with him in his West Hollywood apartment, where he filled me in on going from being a child actor to one of Hollywood's most in demand actors today. Here's Damon.

Jenny: Damon Herriman, we're finally here doing a podcast, Aussies in Hollywood.

Damon: Finally. Yes, it's a real – I don't know why I say finally. I feel like –

Jenny: Well, we’ve been talking about it all year.

Damon: That’s true. That’s true.

Jenny: You’ve been on my wish list for a while because you've got such a great story. And then the good thing was we couldn't do it because you got all these amazing roles, and you couldn't talk about them and –

Damon: Yes. Well, the good thing about the timing now is that stuff's all stuff I can talk about.

Jenny: Well, you have you have Quentin Tarantino's movie coming out next year, and you're in The Nightingale, Jennifer Kent's follow up to Babadook. And Judy and Punch with Mia Wasikowska. And you're currently in Santa Fe, although, right now, we're actually in your apartment in Hollywood, but –

Damon: We are, but –

Jenny: What's going on in Santa Fe?

Damon: In Santa Fe, I'm doing a really, really cool cable series that I'm so excited about. I heard the title might change, but it's currently called Our Lady, LTD., as in o-u-r, Our Lady, LTD. There's a church in the show called Our Lady of Perpetual Grace, so it's short for that. Jacki Weaver and Ben Kingsley play my parents, which is beyond awesome. And a wonderful American actor, Jimmy Simpson, is the lead in it.

Jenny: Who was in Westworld.

Damon: He’s in Westworld and House of Cards and a whole bunch of stuff. And it's an incredibly well written show. This guy, Steve Conrad, who, if you check him out on IMDB, he's done a lot of stuff in the past. He's got a show on Amazon called Patriot at the moment. But there's something about this show and the scripts that's just – every single scene is riveting, and the plot really grabs you. The characters are amazing. The dialogue is great. It's just a joy. I'm so, so excited about it.

Jenny: Well, let's go back to the beginning, which is very, very young for you. I haven't met a lot of the Aussies in Hollywood actors that actually started out as young as you did. Tell us how you got into acting, how old you were? What was your first memory of TV and film when you were growing up?

Damon: I was born in Adelaide in Australia. And when I was three, my family moved to Alice Springs. My dad worked in an insurance company and his job transferred him there. And a few years into that trip, my dad started getting into doing a bit of amateur theatre. And through amateur theatre, he started doing radio commercials. And it was quite funny, you didn't even get paid for them. It was just an honour to do radio commercials. So they'd be like, ‘Will you do – and you’re, ‘Yes, please, can I?’

And these radio ads came up for chocolates one day. They were written for a father and son. And at this point, I was six or seven, and my dad suggested that he and I do them. And we did these ads. We were then around that time, going to be moving back to Adelaide. And my dad wanted to know, what's the in to get with – how do you start as an actor? Because he just figured that, maybe, that was something I could do. So, he actually wrote a letter to Peter Weir, which I still have the letter that Peter Weir wrote back.

Jenny: He wrote back.

Damon: He wrote back. He was the most famous film director in Australia at the time, obviously, and my dad just wrote saying, I think my son has potential as an actor, what should we do? We're about to move to Adelaide. And he wrote back saying go and see this agent. And I still have that letter. It's very funny. So, we moved to Adelaide and went and met with this agent.

I sent her the tapes of these radio commercials, and she signed me. And then I started doing some ads and things. And then it was, maybe, about a year later, maybe 18 months, that I got an audition for Crawfords, and it was just a general audition, but that audition led to a role in The Sullivans, and that started things off.

Jenny: Now, for people who aren't Australian listening to this, or they're very young in Australia, The Sullivans was like our Coronation Street or –

Damon: Or The Waltons. It was set in the 1940s. It was a wartime Australian family, and it was a really good show for its time.

Jenny: Yes, it was.

Damon: So that led on to a bunch of other TV work. So, between 10 and 12, I was working almost more often than not on different shows.

Jenny: How long were you on The Sullivans?

Damon: All up, it was about eight months. I did four months, and then they brought me back a year later for another four months. I think if our family had been happy to move to Melbourne, it would’ve been more of an ongoing thing, but I didn't really want to move. And it was that thing of being a 10-year-old and going, no, I've got my friends at school. And then a few other jobs came up over those years. And then when I hit high school, I lost interest a bit.

I was a bit intimidated by the idea of trying to keep up with schooling with all these new subjects, and it didn't interest me so much. I barely acted at all during high school. And it was really only when I finished high school and went, what the hell do I do now, that I decided to try and get back into it. And that was definitely helped by my dad getting another job transfer, this time to Sydney where there's obviously a lot more acting work than there is in Adelaide.

Jenny: So it was right at the same time.

Damon: Yes. He happened to get a transfer with his job just a little while after I finished – what would it be, maybe, five months or something after I finished high school. So that really reignited my interest in acting again, almost as a default, because there was nothing else I could think of doing. So I was, I guess I'll try this acting thing again that I used to do.

Jenny: So when you move to Sydney, what happened next?

Damon: I slowly got back into it again. It maybe wasn't as easy as I expected. I just thought I've got these credits from being a kid, and I'll just pick it up again, but I was suddenly 18, not 12, and no one particularly cared about the stuff that I'd done before. So it was a pretty slow road, but I was doing mostly guest episodes of things. I did that miniseries, Brides of Christ, so a few different bits and pieces. The first cool thing that happened when I was getting back into acting was when I was 19, and I got cast in a film called The Big Steal with Ben Mendelsohn, one of his earliest films, and, Claudia Karvan, who Australians will know, and, Steve Bisley.

So that was incredibly exciting for me, the day I got the call saying I was in that, because I'd never done a film until then. And Nadia Tass and David Parker, who made The Big Steal, they were so cool. They'd made this film Malcolm, that everybody loved, around that time and I just couldn't believe I was going to get to work with them, and that this was my first movie, and it was a great experience.

Jenny: And that's when you first became friends with Ben, because I know that you're still good friends with Ben to this day.

Damon: Yes, absolutely.

Jenny: Was he experienced at that time? Did he show you the ropes, or were you both starting out?

Damon: Well, I'd done all that stuff as a kid, but he'd done quite a bit already. He'd done The Henderson Kids. He'd done The Year My Voice Broke. So, he was pretty experienced himself. And Ben's always been – he was 21 at the time, but he was 21 going on 40. He's such a together, confident, smart guy that he was definitely the king of the roost on that job, and it was his movie.

Jenny: Did you feel at a certain point, I'm going do this for a living. This is it, no matter what.

Damon: When I finished high school, the first thing I did was I started working for that insurance company that my dad worked for. And I worked there for nine years. So, from age 18 to 27 –

Jenny: No way. Really?

Damon: I was doing plays and doing things like The Big Steal and doing all these other acting jobs, but I was, on a day-to-day basis, putting on a shirt and tie and going into an insurance company. I think the reason I left that insurance company job was because I wasn't thinking of it as a job. It kind of hit me. I was 27. I’d just turned 27. And I just remember thinking, if I don't ever leave this place, I'm going to be 50 and still be here. I need to leave here. And if I do want to be an actor, I need to think about that.

And, yes, maybe, that means that, occasionally, it will be a bit scary about where the next dollar is coming from, but I thought that's part of the job really, and that's part of what comes with being an actor. And this taking it easy and moseying along through life with this office job is probably not the way to go about it. So, about a week after my 27^th birthday, I quit. And, yes, thankfully, things did start picking up a bit more in the way of acting work and voiceover stuff, so I was able to make the rent.

Jenny: So, was there a period after you quit where nothing happened for a while? Did you second guess yourself, like, oh my God, what have I done?

Damon: I entered the Green Card Lottery in 1999, and I won it, and it was the first time I'd entered, and I went, ‘I guess I now have a green card. I guess I need to go to LA.’ And my agent in Australia at the time had just started up a management company over here, so it seemed like, well, that's good timing. At the very least I'll have a manager when I go there, and I'll have a work permit. So, in January 2000, I sold everything that I owned, intending to move to America for a year at least. And 10 weeks later, with my tail between my legs, I went home after one of the most depressing periods of my life.

It was horrible. It was horrible. And it's nice to be able to smile about it now because at the time, it was just dreadful. I didn't know anybody. I didn't really make any friends. I didn't get an agent. I didn't have one audition. And my days started to just become this ‘groundhog day’ of horrible, dark – I’d just watch Ricki Lake or go and get in my car and drive around the streets just for something to do because I didn't know what to do, but it was pathetic, really. And I don't know what I thought it was going to be, but I often say to Australians now when they come out here, and they're like, this place is great. I’m like, you have no idea how bad this place can be.

I agree, this place is great. I love it now, but the circumstances are so different now, because if you come here, as an Australian, you're going to know a bunch of people to start with. And if you don't when you get here, you're going to know them really quickly, because of things like Australians in Film and these organisations. In 2000, when I was here, I didn't know anybody, didn't meet anybody, and it was horrible. LA is a great place, but under the wrong circumstances it can feel like a really cool party that you're not invited to and, day after day, that gets a bit much.

Jenny: So, when you came back to Australia, did you rethink acting as a career or did you just think it was a bad idea to be in LA?

Damon: It was probably just that. I just thought, I've done the LA thing. That didn't work. I had genuinely no intention of going back. And I then did a bit more work in Australia. I did a bit of theatre. That was all going fine. Then I did this show, Love My Way, which I was really stoked to get.

Jenny: Which was a great show and –

Damon: A really great show. For people who don't know it, it was kind of Australia's first HBO style, quality drama, I guess, and it was with Claudia Karvan and Ben Mendelsohn from The Big Steal, funnily enough, 15 years later. And the thing that really changed everything again in terms of America was an audition that came along for a movie called House of Wax, which was an American Horror movie, the Paris Hilton one and that was filming in Queensland, in Australia; American cast and American characters.

And there was this cool hick, inbred character in that, that I got an audition for. Even though I've played a lot of those since, up until that time, I'd been playing a lot of just nice guys with glasses. I hadn't played anything like that until then. So, I got that audition. I got that role. And after I'd done that movie, that changed things a bit because I realised I had an American credit all of a sudden, which is what I hadn't had on the first trip over here.

Jenny: How was the experience of the movie, by the way, and working with Paris Hilton?

Damon: It was great fun, and she was lovely. This is 2003-2004, around there, and she was huge at the time, and you had a certain perception of what she'd be like. And I thought she was really, really nice and smart, and I feel like, to some extent, she was maybe even playing the role of Paris Hilton for the public, but behind the scenes, I thought she was really cool.

So, I came back to America for the premiere of that, and that's where I first got representation over here. Really because I had an American credit finally, I realised that that was an important thing to have. You either need that or you need to be in a big Australian movie that that Americans know about. And if you don't have either of those things, it can be tough.

Jenny: That was 2005, right?

Damon: Yes. I think that's what it was. And from then on till now –

Jenny: So that’s been 13 years.

Damon: Yes – from then to now, I've spent approximately half a year in America and half year in Australia. And, initially, I was just coming out, doing three-month stints auditioning. I did two three-month stints without getting a job or without even getting close to a job. And again – I'm a probably a glass half empty guy. I’m very much like, they're not interested in me. I'll just move on now.

So, I after those two trips, I said I'm going to do one more trip, and if I don't get a job on this trip, I'm not going to come back again, because I just thought, just be realistic about it. And I think the second day of that trip, I got an audition for a guest role on a show called The Unit, and I got that role. So that changed everything because, psychologically, I thought, you can get a job here. It's not impossible. It seemed like a pipe dream before.

Jenny: Were there long periods of unemployment, or were you always doing something?

Damon: No, lots of long periods of unemployment. Certainly, in my 20s, but in the first – most of my 30s, as well. I would come over here and, maybe, in three months, I would do one guest role in something. Sometimes, I wouldn't do anything. Then I’d go back to Australia. And I was mostly, really doing voiceovers in Australia around then. I wasn't even getting that much acting work around that time.

But over here, I was making slow inroads. I remember doing an episode of Cold Case, that crime show, that was a really cool character, and it was in the show a lot, and it was a really fun thing. The next thing that changed was when I audition for a pilot called Justified because I ended up doing that pilot and that character, Dewey Crowe, ended up getting written back into about 25 more episodes over the life of that show.

Jenny: Justified was a really big show for – it’s around. It's got a huge following still.

Damon: It does. People love it.

Jenny: And Timothy Olyphant who just gave you your Australian in Film Award not long ago –

Damon: He did.

Jenny:  – was your costar in that.

Damon: Yes. And that was a joy to work with him and Walton Goggins. And what a great, great role, great writing. That whole thing was fantastic. And that seemed to make getting auditions for slightly better things a little bit easier. So not long after that, I got to do an audition for Breaking Bad that I got. It was just one scene, but it was Breaking Bad, so that was cool, and J. Edgar, the Clint Eastwood movie . So, the auditions seemed to be just for slightly better things all of a sudden.

Jenny: Probably, I would imagine, for most actors, the idea of finally being directed by Clint Eastwood must be a dream. What was the reality? How did it happen? And what was it like?

Damon: It was wonderful. I think I had about seven days on it. Although, as these things happen, often, the best couple of scenes that I had aren't in the movie, but –

Jenny: Maybe, they’re on the DVD extras.

Damon: Yes. I should check that out, actually. The whole thing was like a dream, really. The audition came in, and I think it was one of those things where because the character was German, sometimes, with American casting, they just go American or foreign. And if it's a foreign role, they'll just get all the foreigners to go for the foreign role. And foreign can mean South African, Australian, British.

So, because it was a German role, all the foreign actors got to go for that, and so I think that's how the audition came about. And I didn't audition with him. The casting director, I remember her saying, ‘Clint doesn't like to be present for any auditions because he thinks it might put people off if he's in the room’, which I'm sure it's true. So, I did that audition, and I did it a number of times.

And then I was back in Australia for Christmas, I think, and it was ages later. You normally hear about things, especially over here, fairly quickly, and it must have been six weeks later or something, and I got a call saying you got the Clint Eastwood movie, and I nearly fell over. I could not believe it. That was definitely one of the most – I’d grown up watching him. I couldn't believe I was going to meet him, let alone work with him. And then the whole experience was lovely. It's the calmest set I've ever been on.

He doesn't like people to raise their voice. He doesn't like there to be too much chatter. No one's allowed to yell. No one ever says, ‘Quiet, please,’ or, ‘We’re shooting,’ no one ever calls out things. They're all just talking to each other quietly on their headsets, and –

Jenny: Does he yell ‘action’?

Damon: Well, there's a thing that Clint Eastwood never says ‘action’. He actually did say ‘action’ a few times. I was like, I thought you weren’t meant to say ‘action’, Clint. But he would often say things instead of it, like, ‘when you're ready’, or sometimes, he would just go ‘OK’, and that was action. You knew it was ‘action’ because it there nothing else to say.

The camera, sound department, all said their bit, and then he’d just go, ‘OK’. OK, I guess, I'll start. It's actually a really great way to work, because that lead up to ‘action’ that normally happens is the start of an Olympic race, the way that they carry on. The worst possible way to keep an actor relaxed is to go through that –

Jenny: Like, ready, set, go.

Damon: ‘Roll camera, with the sound, and action.’ But he just makes the feeling of acting not feel separate from the feeling of not acting. So the bit just before your acting feels exactly the same as the bit when you actually doing the scene.

Jenny: What did you learn from that experience? Did you learn something from him or –

Damon: Well, interestingly, he barely gives any direction, and I'd heard that, and it's absolutely true. I think the only time I heard him direct anyone the whole time was, he said to an actor, do that a bit louder, I think. So, one thing that comes out of that is you can – there are great directors who give a lot of direction, a lot of notes. And you've got him at the other end of the spectrum, who has made some of the great movies, and he just – I guess his idea of directing is casting someone, and then letting them do it. And there's a really nice –

Jenny: So, he feels that once he's chosen the person, that was the hardest part of the job.

Damon: Right.

Jenny: And then he just lets them do what he chose them to do.

Damon: Yes. And I think there's something, there's definitely something to that. Certainly, when it's someone like him, and it’s someone like me just rocking up going, I am terrified. I'm going to be working with Clint Eastwood. The fact that I didn't get any notes, the fact that he doesn't do that, was actually a good thing for me, because I would have been constantly going, ‘What was that note? What was that note? Don’t disappoint Clint Eastwood. What was that note?’ So the fact that you left to your own devices actually made me a lot more relaxed I think.

Jenny: So who are some of the other great directors – we'll get to Tarantino in a bit, but who are the other great directors you've worked with, and who have you learned the most from, do you think, in your time in Hollywood?

Damon: Well, the first job that I did was with David Mamet, that that very first guest role that I ever got, so that was incredibly, incredibly exciting for me. Let me think, who else have I worked with? I've worked with Steven Soderbergh briefly. I worked with Gore Verbinski on Lone Ranger.

Jenny: And how was Lone Ranger?

Damon: That was fun. It was such a small role. There wasn't really anything to do. It was essentially just – I was playing one of the bad guys in the gang. I think I said about two lines in the whole movie. And there was extremely heavy makeup prosthetic stuff to make everybody look horrific. So that job was quite tough, because it was – as jobs go, as acting jobs go anyway, in that there was a lot of time spent in the makeup chair, and a lot of time spent in the in the beating desert sun out in the middle of Arizona and so forth, but it was fun being on something that big. It was a big, big movie.

Jenny: Did you guys all hang out? Did Johnny Depp and Armie Hammer, were they around as well or –

Damon: Armie, I had actually met on J. Edgar. So, he was around a bit, and he's a lovely guy. Johnny Depp, I didn't meet once. I think he keeps to himself. I’ll have to think on what have I learned most. I’ve avoided that question because I'm trying to think. I've learned so much. I’m trying to think of something to narrow it down to.

Certainly, one of the things I touched on before that I didn't know when I first came here was that having something for them over here to get excited about you is important. And whether that's an Australian movie that they know and love, whether that's an American credit that you have, or whether it's just you look like Chris Hemsworth or something, that'll help too. That guy's a great actor, but he also looks amazing. And you walk into a room looking like that, you're going have people take interest. But then if you don't have any of those things going for you, it doesn't mean it's not going to happen here. It just means that you may have a long, hard slog ahead of you, and need a bit of luck thrown in there.

Jenny: After Lone Ranger, you went back to Australia and did INXS: Tear Us Apart. That was a very successful miniseries about Michael Hutchence and the band. You played the manager of the band, Chris –

Damon: Yes. Chris Murphy.

Jenny: Chris Murphy. So that's funny, because you did that, and then you were directed by Russell in The Water Diviner; right?

Damon: Yes.

Jenny: So you went back off to the Aussie side for a while.

Damon: Yes. There was a chunk there around that time where I did this Australian film, 100 Bloody Acres and The Water Diviner. I did a sketch comedy show for the ABC and the INXS thing. And that was all; that was all around that time. And –

Jenny: How was working with Russell?

Damon: I loved it. I loved it. It was only a day or two. And we'd met on Brides of Christ years ago, 1990, I think.

Jenny: That's right. And Kim Wilson was in that too, wasn’t she?

Damon: That’s right. That’s right. We both played different boyfriends of hers in that in that episode. So, I'd met him then when he’d – I think he might have done a movie or two, but he certainly wasn't anywhere near as big a movie star as he was about to become. So, it was great watching his career over the last whatever many years that was, and then getting to work with him as a director. And he's a terrific director. I've enjoyed that a lot.

Jenny: So, do you look at the locations and the country involved when you're – because you go back to Australia often now and work, and then you come here, and you work. So, do you just look at all the offers? I'm assuming there are more than one at a time.

Damon: All the offers, Jenny. All the offers.

Jenny: Come on. You must have more choices these days. I'm interested in how you make your choices.

Damon: Let’s say all the offer –

Jenny: Is it – OK.

Damon: – all the offer. Let's keep it singular. I look at all the offer –

Jenny:  Is it script? Is it a director? Is it country? Is it –

Damon: It's definitely not the country, not at the forefront, no. Definitely, all those other things: the script, the role, the director, the other actors, they all come into it. I think, ultimately, the one that just really grabs you, for me, is the role and the script. I would say they're equal. So, if it's a great role, well written, in a well written script, then that's always exciting [00:28:40], and then on top of that, who's directing it, who else do you get to work with. But whether it's in Australia or here hasn't really made that much of a difference.

So, I tend to just go wherever the next job happens to be that's something that's interesting. And if I don't have any jobs coming up, then I tend to go where I haven't been for a while.

Jenny: I remember you were around a lot when you did press for Flesh and Bone. That was a great – that I think got a Golden Globe nomination.

Damon: It did. I think, yes, Sarah, the lead actress got nominated.

Jenny: So that was a really high profile show. Do things that do well in America, do they make a difference in terms of the stuff that – doors that open for you or –

Damon: Yes, I think so. It depends what it is. Flesh and Bone was a really cool show. Australian, David Michod, directed the first episode. It was really high production values, shot in New York; it was a great thing to work on. It didn't end up – there are definitely a lot of people who saw it and loved it, but it didn't end up popping in a big way. And I was playing a homeless guy in that who didn't even look like me, really. So –

Jenny: It was a great transformation. It must have been fun to –

Damon: It was great fun. I was riding my bike to work in Manhattan every day. It was a dream job. I'd always dreamed of – imagine working in New York, that would be incredible, and that job really made that happen. But that one, in particular, probably didn't lead on to a lot more just because, again, it's that weird perception thing. One scene in Breaking Bad probably got me more work than 10 episodes of Flesh and Bone.

Jenny: One thing I love about your career is that you – no one could ever say you were typecast. No one could ever say you were put into a category. You've really been able to play just about anything. Does it feel like that to you? What do you feel like the perception is of you as an actor, and how do you feel about the choices you get?

Damon: I love getting to play characters that are different from me and different from each other. That, to me, is the most exciting thing. When I read something that I'm going for or whatever, and it's a really cool character that I've never played before, that really presses my buttons. I really love it. I don't know what the perception of me is in that regard, but I know that if you're looking to cast some romantic lead, you're not going to be calling me, I don’t think, but that doesn't bother me at all. I think the other roles are so much fun, and I wouldn't change it at all.

Jenny: So, you will cast this Charles Manson in Mindhunter. I think, actually, there was a point where I met you when you were in the middle of that audition, and it was down to you and one other guy, and that was the last time we talked. And then it was like, Oh, my God, you got the role.

Damon: Right.

Jenny: What was that process like, the first time you played – it's funny saying the first time you play Charles Manson; talk about typecasting.

Damon: Yes, I know. If I wasn't typecast before, that's all about to change. Initially, I think I did a self-tape in October last year. It was one of those ones that I read, and was like, I really, really, really want to do everything I can to try and get this, to get to play a role like that. I knew that there were only seeing actors under five foot six, although I'm slightly taller than that, but only very slightly. So, I knew that I was already in a category of short guys, so that was a positive thing. I thought, well, that narrows the competition –

Jenny: Finally.

Damon: – a little bit. And I thought, I think my face could probably be made to look like his. I didn't ever picture how much –

Jenny: I bet you never asked that question before.

Damon: No. So, I went and bought a wig for the self-tape, because I thought I want to at least give a suggestion of his long, dark hair. I did that self-tape. Then I got a callback in the room with the casting director. I did it again, and then got some notes from David Fincher, whose show it is, and did another self-tape. And so that all took place over about three months. And then in January this year, I found out I got the role, but wasn't going to be shooting it till July, which is very, very unusual.

Normally, with TV in America, you get a role, and about four days later, you're filming it, but it was great. It meant that I had from January to July to read and watch everything Charles Manson.

Jenny: Is he a big part of this season of Mindhunter? Because I know the show is about the group of detectives who – Anna Torv’s character who is on the mind of things, who try, and they discover serial killers, and realise that there are patterns and all of that, so I'm assuming he comes into that.

Damon: Yes. I think that falls into the, I'm not allowed to tell you that bit, Jenny. I'm sorry. I know that's boring, but I don't want David Fincher –

Jenny: Was he there on set?

Damon: He was.

Jenny: Did you work with him? How was that?

Damon: He was lovely.

Jenny: Talk about all these directors. You keep forgetting all the big – Bryan Singer and – you’ve worked with –

Damon: Yes, I did work with Bryan Singer.

Damon: Andrew Dominic, actually, directed the Mindhunter stuff that I did.

Jenny: Andrew Dominic, another Aussie, great director.

Damon: A wonderful Aussie director who directed Chopper and Jesse James and Killing Them Softly. He’s an incredible talent. So, he directed the episode, but David Fincher was there probably 60-70 percent of the time, and he was lovely. He was an incredibly friendly, open, generous guy. I just – again, these ‘pinch yourself’ moments where you just think about all the David Fincher movies you've seen and there you are, just the two of you on set, just having a chat in a break, and, yes, it’s pretty weird.

Jenny: So it is a good thing, it sounds like, when you get to all these roles that you've just been telling me about, that you don't stay in a lot.

Damon: Yes.

Jenny: How long were you in the Charles Manson mode for that one?

Damon: It was only a few days, but as I said, I not only don't stay in character. At the end of the day, I don't really stay in character after they say cut at the end of each take. I’m very much talking like this, as myself, right up to right up to action. That’s just how it works for me, but there's obviously something to it. Daniel Day Lewis stays in character, and he's about as good as it gets. So, maybe, I – no, I'm not going to start doing that, not with these roles.

Jenny: But for every Daniel Day Lewis, there’s another great actor who does it the way you do it, so –

Damon: But he was really great. And he'd only just found out, I think, two weeks before I was going to shoot Mindhunter that I was playing Charles Manson in the Tarantino movie. It never actually came up on set or anything, but I don't know whether that would have been the best news from his perspective to think that the guy you'd cast as Charles Manson six months earlier, was now going to be playing it again in a movie, but he was certainly incredibly gracious to me, and a really lovely guy.

Jenny: So what was the timing? Was it a total coincidence, or did somebody hear that you were playing him somewhere else and thought Quentin should know about it?

Damon: It was kind of like that. But, Quentin Tarantino, when I got the role, he never knew that I was already doing it until I got the role. So, essentially, Nicolas Hammond, who's an Australian-American actor, actually, people would know him as the oldest son in The Sound of Music, in the film. He's a friend from years ago. He played my dad when I was about 22 in a play. And he has a small role in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood.

He had heard that I was playing Manson and assumed it was that, and emailed me saying, are we going to be working together? And I said, no, no, no, you're thinking of – wrong Manson, a different Manson. And then he went into work and said, unbeknownst to me, said to the producer, have you cast Manson yet? I've got a suggestion for you, and he wrote down my name. There were all these things that had to happen for this role to come together – at that point, Timothy Olyphant from Justified was walking past, saw my name written down, and went, ‘Oh, I know him. Why have you written that down?’ And she said, Nicholas was saying that we should see him for Manson. And he went, ‘That's a good idea. I'll go and talk to Quentin.’

So, he went and talked to Quentin Tarantino, and said, ‘You know the guy who plays Dewey Crowe in Justified, you should get him in for Manson.’ And Quentin Tarantino said, sure. And next thing I knew, I had a self-tape. They said, we can't email it to you. We'll have to post it to you on paper. So about three days later, I get this paper in the mail. And I'm like ‘oh, my goodness, it's Charles Manson again. What are the chances?’

Jenny: So you didn't know what it was until you actually got the piece of paper in the mail.

Damon: They wouldn’t tell me. I had a pretty good idea, because at that point, I knew that Timothy had said – sorry – that Nicholas and – yes – that they’d both said something. And my first thought was, well, this is awesome, but what a shame that I'm never going to really have a shot at this because I'm already playing it. So, I did a self-tape for it.

I flew to LA to do the first makeup test on Mindhunter playing Charles Manson, and the day after that, I got a call saying you've got the Tarantino movie. And I was thrilled, and then just my heart sank because I thought, well, now you're going to tell him I'm already doing it, and he's going to say, we'll get someone else. But they called him, and told him I was doing it, and he didn't mind, so it all came together. And I ended up, I think, at one point, it was two weeks apart, I was playing Manson on two different things, an 11-year age gap as well. So it was a different Manson in each one.

Jenny: That's what I was going to ask you, you didn't get to keep the same wig and the same outfit –

Damon: No.

Jenny:  – and then just head off to the other set.

Damon: That did cross my mind at one point. I thought they should just share resources, but, no. The makeup on Mindhunter was quite extensive. They got this Japanese makeup artist, Kazu, who's the best. He did Gary – he won the Oscar for Gary Oldman’s Churchill makeup. So, they really did quite extensive prosthetics and stuff.

Jenny: And what age was Manson in Mindhunter?

Damon: In Mindhunter, he's 45. And in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, he's 34.

Jenny: So you're too modest to tell the story, but when I was at the AIF Awards, Timothy gave you your award, and he told the story of a little bit of the background of his version of going up to Quentin and suggesting your name, then Quentin asking him to sit down and watch your audition. And then they watched it a second time. And he said Quentin Tarantino is a pretty busy guy, but he was so blown away, he watched it twice. And then he said to me, ‘I could shoot this right now.’ That must’ve been a pretty great feeling to know that somebody like Quentin got you as an actor and was so impressed.

Damon: Yes. I can't really even put it into words. To hear something like that – it’s almost like your life flashing before you. It’s like your career flashing before you. You start thinking about all the times you didn't get something or the rooms you couldn't get in for an audition, or that director who I just admire so much, has said such a lovely thing. It's a nice feeling, that's for sure.

Jenny: So then you finally – this is when we were going to do the podcast was the week that you were going to shoot that –

Damon: That’s right.

Jenny: And so we decided we'd better put it off.

Damon: Well, because at the time, I said, Jenny, I’m not going to be able to talk about any of this. I’m not even allowed to say I’m doing it.

Jenny: So what was the experience like after all of that, of being directed by Quentin Tarantino?

Damon: It was awesome. It was some of the most fun I've ever had on a job.

Jenny: I hear he has a very particular style, the way he directs a movie, with shots at the end of –

Damon: Yes. Well, he still shoots on film, which is very rare these days. And every 100 rolls of film, they bring out drinks and snacks, and everyone has a little party for 25 minutes. And you’re just like, who's –everyone's on the clock. Who's paying for this? Being in a Quentin Tarantino film was like watching one. You just got that excited feeling where everything looks cool, and the design is so great. Of course, this is set in 1969, and that's just such a great period for him to be making a film in. Everything just feels so right. He's constantly a ball of energy and enthusiasm and knows exactly what he wants.

They said that he's pretty much cut the film in his head before he even shoots it, and you really get that sense. He doesn't waste any shots. He doesn't do unnecessary coverage. If he knows that a particular part of a scene is what this shot is going to be used for, unlike most directors who will just go, well, let's just shoot the scene again with this shot, he'll just shoot the three lines for the shot because he knows that's the bit he wants. I loved working with him, and I loved getting to say his dialogue.

It's not often that you get dialogue where it feels like the acting is written into it for you. And you feel like, if I just say this, the acting's in the – it's just – the dialogue is so good. And that's what it felt like doing that. It was definitely a highlight.

Jenny: When I heard the cast, it was a lot of, wow, Leonardo DiCaprio, Brad Pitt, and then our own Margot Robbie. Did you know Margot before?

Damon: I knew Margot a little. I knew her to say hi to, but I didn't know her well, but we got to work together in the film and hang out. And, my goodness, could you meet someone nicer? She's got to be one of, if not the nicest – well, Hugh Jackman can be the guy version, and she can be the female version. She is just an absolute sweetheart, just a super smart, super talented, super lovely person, and completely unaffected by the incredible success, and good on her.

Jenny: I think that's a general trait in Aussies, from what you see, that none of them take it all too seriously or think too much of themselves. Maybe it's that tall poppy thing that happens when people knock you down back home, but –

Damon: Well, there is that thing, and, certainly, your old friends back home and your family won't let you get away with that most of the time too. You can't suddenly get too big for your boots because they’d tell you to knock it off.

Jenny: I always ask everybody in this podcast the one question in common, because everybody has a theory, and they're always different, about being from such a small country, do you have any theories on why so many Australians have been so successful, not just in front of the camera, but behind the camera as well? Per capita, I think, we have more Aussies who've done well in this business. Do you think there's a specific thing about Australians that explains it or is it just an anomaly?

Damon: There's a thing in Australia of not being fraudulent, of not being fake. If someone seems to be putting on airs and graces or seems to be putting forward a plastic version of themselves, people see through it, so you don't really get away with it. So, maybe, there's something to do with that not being fake and not being fraudulent that works with acting because acting is all about not being fake and not being fraudulent. So, maybe, there's something to that.

Jenny: And we work hard too, Aussies.

Damon: Yes.

Jenny: They are not afraid of hard work; right.

Damon: Yes. And there's probably, maybe, less vanity in Australia, not to say there's not vanity. We definitely have it, but, I don't know, I think that thing of if you need to look terrible for something, or if you need to be uncomfortable, I just think that there's something about going, look, whatever, we'll make it good, let's do that. And, look, that exists here too, so I don't know. It's a very hard one to pinpoint.

Jenny: Well, when I heard the title of Judy and Punch, obviously, I was thinking a Punch and Judy, and most people listening would have some idea that that was outrageously politically incorrect now that you think about, a puppet show about a guy beating the crap out of his wife.

Damon: And for Americans, I don't think you guys were brought up on Punch and Judy, but in England and Australia, and certainly Commonwealth countries, yes, it was a weird little hand puppet show that was more popular, probably, decades ago than it is now, but it still exists.

Jenny: And so is this a – tell me how this relates to that title.

Damon: Well, essentially, Mirrah, the genius that she is, came up with this film where Punch and Judy, the puppets, are – it's basically an invented history. So, it's as if Punch and Judy, the puppets, were a real couple in real life who happened to have a puppet show called The Punch and Judy Show, so they have puppets of themselves. And the puppet show is the one that people know, with this husband and wife and the baby and beating each other up and talking in gibberish. In the film, that also reflects the real-life relationship where Punch is an alcoholic and a very violent one at that. And –

Jenny: Damon, you just can't help yourself, can you?

Damon: I'm playing a nice guy in the show with Jacki and Ben Kingsley.

Jenny: Thank God.

Damon: I’m circling back around. I’m circling back around. Look, the tone of this film is a really interesting one. It's got a lot of shock elements in it, but it's also very funny. It's almost like a – I think you’d call it a dark fairytale. The design and photography are beautiful, and I'm really, really excited about it, because the script was just so good.

Jenny: Did you know Jacki Weaver before you started working on this – is it a limited series or a series?

Damon: It's a series, yes.

Jenny: A series, OK.

Damon: It’s intended to go on. I did. I met Jacki when I was 10. In fact, I have a photo of Jacki –

Jenny: You know what, you showed me that photo.

Damon: Have I shown you that? Yes.

Jenny: And when this comes out, I'm going to tell everybody to look on my Twitter, and I'll post a copy of it, so they can see.

Damon: So that photo was taken backstage at a show that Jacki was doing called They're Playing Our Song, which she and John Waters, an Australian – or British then Australian actor, were doing in Melbourne at the time, when I was doing The Sullivans. And I was working with John Waters, so I was going to see him in it, and that's how I met her. And over the years, we've run into each other many times, but I don't think – we've worked on the same project, but we've never worked in scenes together.

Jenny: So, what's it like having her be your TV mum?

Damon: She's the best. It's just great having her in – we're shooting in Santa Fe, which is a small city in New Mexico, and just having her around is awesome. We go to movies and dinners, and she's just the loveliest.

Jenny: And Sir Ben, as I think he likes people to call him, Sir Ben Kingsley, what is he like?

Damon: He has been lovely. I haven't had that much to do with him as yet, but word on the street is that he's just an absolute pro. And he turns up fully prepared. He's funny and just a really sweet guy. Everyone's enjoying having him there. And as you would expect, he's amazing in the show.

Jenny: Well, you mentioned they play your parents; is it a period piece? Can you tell us a little bit about what to expect?

Damon: It's not a period piece, but it does have quite a lot of flashbacks to the past. It's an intriguing page turner of a script. Steve Conrad who created it is quite amazing. It's like a bit of Coen Brothers with a bit of Tarantino with a bit of something else. It's right on the cusp of comedy and drama. I'm not even sure what category it would fit into in that regard, and it's –

Jenny: It’s called a drama on IMDB –

Damon: Is it?

Jenny: – just so you know.

Damon: Is it? I think it would, because, sometimes they just do that, because it's an hour, not half an hour. So, it is an hour, but it's a very funny drama, and slightly absurd at times. It's –

Jenny: Are you the grifter in it, or –

Damon: No. That’s Jimmy Simpson, but he comes across my character. And my character, enlists him in a scheme to rip off my parents, who are a couple of evangelists who bring in quite a lot of money to their church. But there are quite a lot of story strands, a lot of characters. It's really the sort of thing where you'll get to the end of each episode going, what happens next? It's got a lot of twists. It's really good.

Jenny: Is there anything or anyone to work with that’s still on your bucket list? Where do you see yourself? What do you want to do next if it was up to you?

Damon: I'm just at the moment, taking each day as it comes, and, really, really grateful. Something I said in that speech at the Australians in Film Awards was that I do feel incredibly lucky. I think, good fortune really comes into play a lot. And at the moment, I feel so lucky, especially this year, and I hope it keeps going like this. I know that it may, and I know that it might not. And I'll be disappointed if it doesn't, but I'll also be like, well, 2018 was awesome.

Even if that's as good as it gets, I know that from having so many years where it's not like 2018. I know how rare and lucky I am to have had that year. So, if that's as good as it gets, I'm going to go to my grave that happy chap.

Jenny: There’ll probably be a lot of young, aspiring actors listening to this. Is there any advice that you got, or that you would give, that you think they should hear, that could have saved you some, I don't know what?

Damon: I think just keep your feet on the ground. We're all doing a job. And all the people you're working with on the crew and all that are all doing a job. We're all trying to get towards the same thing, which is make something that's good. So don't get too big for your boots, I think, is the best advice. Certainly, an important piece of advice for anyone doing this job because you do get, sometimes, treated very well, and you – if you get too used to that, it can – some people get affected by it. And I think just always remember that everyone's there to do their best and have a good time and be nice to people.

Jenny: Probably the great thing about going between America and Australia is that if you forget that, and you go and work in a movie in Australia, they bring you right back to, ‘Get out. You’re not in front of the line for the food.’

Damon: That’s right. Exactly.

Jenny: I'm not going to go get your coffee.

Damon: Exactly. You find out quick smart what it used to be like; that's right.

Jenny: Well, I'm so excited that we got to chat. And there's so many great things we're all looking forward to seeing you in. Thank you so much for doing this podcast.

Damon: Thank you so much, Jenny. It was my pleasure.

Jenny: What Damon didn't know when we spoke, was that Tarantino had to make a lot of cuts to the final version of the film, including, sadly, some of his best scenes. So be sure to look out for the DVD extras and check out the rest. I think every Aussie who knows or has worked with Damon is thrilled he's having such a great year, and I hope it continues for him every year. Until next time, that's all from Aussies in Hollywood.